29 November 2008 6:33 PM

Like Haig on the Somme, we’ll bleed to death in Afghanistan

This is Peter Hitchens' Mail on Sunday column

We must pull our troops out of Afghanistan. It is no good waiting for the Americans to lift us off this hook. They will leave, too, in the end, but they do not know it yet.

British_troops_2 It takes quite a nerve for us to claim we are fighting terror and promoting civilisation in Afghanistan, when we have been beaten hollow by the IRA in Ulster, when we cannot prevent deaths like that of ‘Baby P’, and our own poorer zones are lawless wastelands of disorder and violence, guns and knives, long abandoned by authority.

In fact it is this arrogant fantasy that we have some sort of right, as a ‘civilised’ country, to visit our non-existent wisdom and our devalued ‘democracy’ on Afghanistan that infuriates me most of all about this futile adventure. Brave young men, the best of their generation, die or are maimed for life because our politicians do not even have the small courage to admit that they were wrong.

The Government never knew why it was sending them there in the first place. Opium poppies? We grow them legally in Oxfordshire. Freeing women from the burka? It’s still worn. Fighting the Taliban? We could do that for 50 years and still lose, as anyone who knows anything about Afghanistan could have warned from the start.

It’s weeks since Brigadier Mark Carleton-Smith said that the idea of defeating the Taliban was ‘neither feasible nor supportable’, America’s spooks recently conceded that our operations there were in a downward spiral, and our Ambassador to Kabul, Sir Sherard Cowper-Coles, has been revealed in a leaked document to believe that our mission is doomed. Yet we just carry on, like Earl Haig on the Somme, spending other people’s lives like so much paper.

Afghanistan’s government is a corrupt, powerless joke, not least because it is founded on the barrels of foreign guns. It does not even control its own capital. The Taliban are quietly re-establishing themselves in a cleverly modified form, avoiding some of their old unpopular policies.

There is no point in waiting for a new American President to save us from our own folly. Barack Obama – like all Left-wing US Presidents – will need to prove how ‘tough’ he is quite early on, and also hopes to win over many of the neo-Cons who backed the ‘war on terror’.

And Mr Obama’s most likely way of showing off will be to step up the futile Afghan conflict, since it is still – absurdly – popular and widely believed to have a defined purpose. Probably he will make more and more raids into Pakistan, a country already stumbling around in wounded circles.

This whole septic area is the direct legacy of ill-informed, short-term meddling by outside powers, from our own invention of the nonsensical ‘Durand Line’ border which divides Pakistan from Afghanistan in the wrong place, to our shameful, ill-prepared panic scuttle from India 60 years ago, to more recent Russian and then Western interventions in Afghan affairs. If this is the outcome of well-meaning intervention, surely neglect can only be better?

We forget everything, and learn nothing. Politicians often pose as being able to save us from economic crises, which in fact they cannot control any more than they can order the weather about. They do have absolute power over the deployment of our troops, yet they never debate it, and political journalists never ask them about it. The Tory ‘Opposition’, ashamed of its role in selling the country to Brussels, backs the operation in the hope of appearing ‘tough’ and ‘patriotic’. Patriotism in these times demands a little more thought than that.

And this is certain. We have failed at whatever it was we were doing in Afghanistan, if
we ever knew what it was.

Who dares send another man to die in a cause that’s already lost? Get out now.

007, licensed to make le Carré look tiresome

Bond_3 I have just forced myself to see a James Bond film for the first time in years.

The whole idea seemed to me to have gone stale and there was still a sickly whiff around the franchise of the rather pathetic Sixties idea of glamour.

I was surprised to find that I rather liked Quantum Of Solace, and even Daniel Craig, not to mention Olga Kurylenko.

Everybody’s agreeably disillusioned about everything, the bits that don’t make sense are still exciting and it was a stroke of genius to have an environmentalist as the villain.

What better cover for a really nasty person than to pose as one of these pious phonies.

It was certainly far better than John le Carré’s latest non-thrilling novel (please, Hollywood, don’t film it), A Most Wanted Man.

Even though I agree with much of le Carré’s anger against American behaviour, his portrayal of all Americans as morons (and his equally unreal hero-worship of Chechens) is just tiresome.
Funny to think that, long ago, le Carré was supposed to be the realistic answer to Bond.


The great comprehensive con

The unsolved scandal of our appalling State schools is not helped by the way so much of the media continue to believe Government lies, miss the point or side with the wreckers.

I have now had a good look at an excellent study of selective schooling by the Sutton Trust, which was recently reported as an anti-grammar-school story by the hopelessly biased, Left-wing BBC. They led off their website story by saying that grammars don’t take many bright children from poor homes. Of course they don’t. There are now so few grammar schools in so few places that they are besieged by well-off people using every lawful device to get their children into them.

But what the BBC buried was a much more interesting fact. The most socially selective State schools in Britain – that is, the ones with the biggest bias towards children of better-off parents – are alleged ‘comprehensives’.

This is because of the secret selection which such schools operate – from tiny catchment areas, to complex feeder school arrangements, to religion. All of these fiddles are used all the time by Labour (and now Tory) politicians. They wish to shore up the great, whopping untruth that State schools are fundamentally all right, when the truth is that good State schools are rare and fiercely biased against the poor.

Now you have to ask yourself why the political parties, and the media, want to suppress this truth. As always, it’s partly because they refuse to admit they were wrong about destroying the grammar schools. But it’s also because the privileged do quite well out of the current deal.

The thing is, comprehensive schools were introduced by people calling themselves socialists who claimed to be helping the non-privileged. Wouldn’t you expect that they would think again, if given evidence that comprehensives actually reinforce privilege? No, they prefer silence or dishonesty.

A very hot place in hell is reserved for such people, but in the meantime, let us bring back selection. It’s far fairer than ‘comprehensives’. And it can be done, as the former East Germany has shown.

23 November 2008 12:47 AM

Speak out Charles, our teenage politicians never will

Prince_charles_hitchensThis is Peter Hitchens' Mail on Sunday column

Prince Charles will be right to speak out once he becomes King. It is true that by doing so he will risk the future of the Crown. But, if he fails to rock the Royal boat, the Monarchy will in any case be finished soon.

The present Queen is undoubtedly very nice. But she has badly damaged the throne by failing to speak out when she might have done – especially against the surrender of our independence to the European Union, which undermined her own position.

And it is a myth that she has remained carefully neutral. Far from it.

In 1998 she went out of her way to endorse the Blair Government’s abject surrender to the terrorist godfathers of the IRA.

Her stance on this contentious issue helped Mr Blair to bamboozle Northern Ireland’s Protestants into voting ‘yes’ in the rigged referendum that will eventually place them under Dublin rule, so that they cease to be the Queen’s subjects.

In her 2004 Christmas broadcast she proclaimed ‘diversity is indeed a strength’ – a Royal endorsement of the multiculturalism many oppose and dislike.

Just imagine what would have happened if she had taken the opposite side on these issues, and then you will see just how powerful these statements were.

Charles, unlike his mother, has some strong conservative instincts – not Tory, by the way, which is in many ways the opposite of conservative these days.

And that is exactly the point. When a rigged, whipped Parliament is dominated by teenage social liberals who know little and care nothing of the national heritage, an outspoken King could upset this unhealthy arrangement, speaking for the voiceless millions who share his sense of loss and of isolation.

By doing so he would create a crisis. And the attitude of the media in such a crisis could decide if he succeeds or fails. But I think that crisis is necessary. The major political parties are closed clubs kept alive by State funding and dodgy millionaires, speaking only for themselves.

Thwey, not the House of Lords, the Monarchy or the judiciary, are the things that need reforming and replacing. Charles could justify his entire life if he helps to make that happen, and I hope he will.

If he doesn’t, his fate is sealed. New Labour’s Michael Wills, a close associate of Gordon Brown, has already drawn up plans to humiliate and marginalise the Monarchy. The next lot of Royal children will be ordered to attend State schools, to keep up the pretence that the State system is working.

The Coronation will be turned into a multi-culti panto. And Mr Wills thinks Charles cannot be trusted to be impartial if there is a hung Parliament – the implication being that he will lose his role in forming a new government.

You think the Useless Tories will protect the throne against this sort of salami-slicing? Forget it. Faced with the choice between defending the old independent House of Lords and caving in, what did they do?

They caved in, in their unending quest for a quiet life in preference to principles. Somebody has to stand in the way and say ‘enough’. It won’t be David Cameron. Let it be Charles. Everyone may be surprised by how much support he gets.

The cheeky face of Leftist propaganda

There's something about Andrea Riseborough’s cheeky Left-wing face that makes TV chiefs long to use her in propaganda programmes.

Having portrayed Margaret Thatcher as a sort of Tory Germaine Greer, Miss Riseborough is now adorning The Devil’s Whore, an astonishingly ridiculous drama series about the English Civil War, apparently written jointly by Belle de Jour and that joke Marxist figure Dave Spart.

I never knew that cavaliers’ wives did striptease dances on the dining table at their wedding feasts. I also didn’t know that Oliver Cromwell was so like Charlie Whelan, Gordon Brown’s spivvy spin- doctor, both in mannerisms and politics.

Nor was I aware that even the most radical of Cromwell’s followers were feminists before the idea had ever been heard of. Well, you learn something new every day from TV, even if it’s not true.

The only good thing about this series, apart perhaps from the bodices, is that people who have never heard of the Civil War might now look it up and find out what actually happened.

Meanwhile, look out for Andrea Riseborough in Britain’s Che Guevara –The True Story Of Boadicea. Coming soon.

Smirking Ross's return will kill the BBC

So the walking smirk, Jonathan Ross, will be back on BBC screens any day now, as overpaid and revolting as ever. Well, I reckon that means the BBC has missed its last chance to regain the respect of the British people and save itself.

It cannot now complain if it is dismembered and the bleeding pieces are flung to the vultures of commercial broadcasting.

Because I believe so strongly in the rule of law, I can’t join those who will now refuse to pay their licence fees.

There may be a legal case for doing this, especially on the grounds that the Corporation has failed in its duty of impartiality over the EU, but it hasn’t been tested in the courts yet.

I think what will happen is this. Quite a few people, me included, will increasingly wonder if we want to carry on owning TVs at all if this means we must pay for Mr Ross’s smutty displays and all that goes with them.

A lot more will find excuses (they never watch the BBC, they get their programmes through the internet) for quietly cancelling their licences. The authorities just won’t be able to pursue them.

And the BBC will, slowly but surely, die. Friday was the day that became certain.

Education, new victim of the IRA

The 11-Plus has been abolished in Northern Ireland, the last place in this country which still had full-scale academic selection. As a result it had higher standards than schools on the mainland and gave better opportunities to bright children from poorer homes.

New Labour has long been infuriated by this living proof that selection is better than the comprehensives it supports.

Gordon Brown must be secretly delighted that the IRA’s front organisation, Sinn Fein, is destroying the evidence. Sinn Fein and the IRA have always been good at destroying things, sometimes even more spectacularly than this.

But here’s the really interesting thing. They’ve abolished the 11-Plus without even knowing what will replace it – absolute proof that those responsible are motivated purely by the urge to wreck. They don’t care what happens next, as long as this good thing is abolished.

* Why does everyone now think it’s all right to park on the pavement? Could it be because the police do it? Pictures of a police van outside the home of alleged murder victim Katherine Ellerbeck show the usual pretentious hanks of ‘Police, do not cross’ tape and a whopping big fat police van, parked on the pavement.

I can’t see any excuse for this. If the police can’t park considerately and legally, why should anyone else? People who actually walk are a menaced minority, blocked by police vans one minute, swatted by cyclists the next.

19 November 2008 12:34 PM

Travelling once more

Read Peter Hitchens only in the Mail on Sunday

I expect to be travelling for much of the next fortnight (that's two weeks, for those North American readers who think 'defence' is spelt 'defense'). During that time I don't expect to post and may be slow to answer points on individual threads. I shall try to make up for this when I return.

19 November 2008 12:32 PM

God, schools and television

Read Peter Hitchens only in the Mail on Sunday

Various contributors were enthused by Steve Lewis's posting  (8th November, 1052 am) on the thread about the Ross-Brand-BBC affair. In fact, Mr Lewis was responding to what I thought was an equally important (but largely neglected) point about the brainwashing power of TV. He argued that religious education of children was comparable to the conformist influence of TV, and then went on to make an attack on religion in general. I didn't think this was specially distinguished, but a number of others praised it, so I promised a response, on both matters. Here it is.

First, the perniciousness of TV would be just as bad even if it were used to promote causes I like. I can say this quite safely since I know that it won't do so, but it also happens to be true. TV influences the human mind in ways which defy and avoid reason and ignore facts. It is also seduced by appearances, and extraordinarily bad at picking up the subtle negative signs that humans give off when you meet them personally.  I have often pointed out that TV is good at making bad people look good, and also at making good people look bad.

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Two striking examples of this are Princess Diana and Anthony Blair ( and of course now Barack Obama). I am not suggesting that any of these were or are personally wicked. But I am suggesting that their effects on our society have generally been bad, and that without TV they could not have achieved those things. Diana's televisual glamour was astonishing, and made people ignore her many episodes of bad behaviour, most notably her erratic private life (surely unwise in the mother of young boys) and her incredibly destructive BBC interview with Martin Bashir. Compare the response to Prince Charles's equally destructive TV interview with Jonathan Dimbleby, which rightly rebounded hard on him and has done him damage ever since.

In the case of Mr Blair and Mr Obama, I have never seen Mr Obama in the flesh so I can only comment on his record, but he seems to me to be a rather ordinary and undistinguished politician who once made one good speech but generally contents himself with imitations of Martin Luther King. Those who have the 'I have a dream' speech imprinted on their brains, as many of my generation do, must have noticed how similar Mr Obama's voice, cadences and inflections are to those of Dr King. As I scurried through various US airports during the election campaign, Mr Obama's speeches were often relayed on TVs in the concourses, and more than once I thought I was actually hearing Dr King.  But how can this be? Dr King's voice and vocabulary were the product of a specifically Southern and deeply Christian upbringing and background, especially an intimate knowledge of the Authorised (King James) version of the Bible.

Mr Obama has never lived anywhere in the American South, he did not have a Christian upbringing and his acquaintance with the Bible only began when he signed up to Trinity Church. If he sounds like Dr King ( and he does) it must be because he  - consciously or unconsciously - seeks to do so. You think this unlikely? You're welcome to do so. But politicians are very concerned about how they sound. We learned on Sunday from my colleague Simon Walters that the teenage Tory Shadow Chancellor, George Osborne, has used a voice coach, apparently in a (not wholly successful) effort to make himself sound less posh.

In the flesh I expect Mr Obama is a fairly ordinary person, who I suspect smells quite strongly and unglamorously of cigarettes if you can get close enough to him. Princess Diana, likewise, was so beloved by the camera that the reality was deeply disappointing. The first time I saw her in person,  from about ten feet away, it took me 30 seconds to realise that this was the face that launched a thousand headlines. This angular, awkward figure was the monarch of glamour? Surely not. Yet it was so.

As for Mr Blair,  my own experience and that of many others who have dealt with him directly has been that he is a person who knows very little about the world, rarely reads, and is of rather limited intelligence. Yet TV has managed to make him look like a world statesman.

That is one of TV's faults, its creation of wholly false images. But because it enters the mind unmediated,  a word whose significance Mr Lewis seems to have missed, it bypasses all kinds of important filters. A child dealing with an adult, be it a parent and teacher, gets its impression of that adult not just from a screen persona which may or may not be true, but from a complete experience. the child will see that person when in a hurry, on the mornings when that person has overslept or missed the bus or had a puncture, or left a label standing up at the back of a shirt. The child will have seen that person in good and bad moods, tired, irritable, distracted. In short, it will be much better able to judge what that person says. TV persons are too good. They never make mistakes or have spots.  They are always on their best behaviour, always combed and properly dressed, always carefully lit to their advantage, always anxious to show their good sides and conceal their bad ones.  Even the men wear make-up, and (I speak as a person who has appeared a few times on TV) the relaxation of tension when the cameras finally turn away and the microphones are off is considerable, as is the difference between the behaviour and language of TV people off and on screen. People on TV are consciously not being fully themselves.

Then there is the difference between books and TV. A child who reads books forms his own pictures of the characters, sometimes aided by verbal description but undoubtedly his own. He imagines their voices and mannerisms. So does the author. But each experience is individual. This is why, for those of us who were brought up before TV was the overwhelming master of our culture, the filming of beloved classic books is always a disappointment. We know the characters did not speak or look like that . Similarly, once TV or movies have taken over a classic, there is only one image. Sherlock Holmes will now always look more or less like Basil Rathbone (actors who play him until the end of time have to pass this test)  Inspector Morse, who didn't look in the least like John Thaw in Colin Dexter's early books, came in the later books to be identical to Mr Thaw, and acquired  a red Jaguar too.  Even 'Brideshead Revisited' was so taken over by the Jeremy Irons version that the miserable movie remake often copies the TV series in visual imaging (the casting of the minor character Hooper is particularly striking. The film actor is obviously based on the TV actor). As for 'Pride and Prejudice' , this is now rapidly ceasing to be the property of Jane Austen. In the end, Andrew Davies will have remodelled most of English literature.

Then there is its universality.  Soap operas in particular come to dominate the imaginations of whole generations. 'Friends' has influenced the attitudes and language of millions, as 'Neighbours' once did and 'Grange Hill ' did as well.  Do any of their viewers know that they are being propagandised?

May I urge Mr Lewis to read my chapter 'Suburbs of the Mind' on the propaganda power of soap operas, in my book 'The Abolition of Britain' now at last available again from bookshops.

Mr Lewis may object to the minority of schools where individual teachers still try to spread the Christian gospel as received religion and truth, rather than as a curiosity to be studied alongside Jainism and Hinduism. But how he can possibly compare this tiny, individualised effort by mere human beings to the enormous glittering,  mechanised brainwashing of TV, I do not know.  Most of it is surely undone in seconds by the portrayal of one of Soap World's few acknowledged Christian characters as a wrinkled, unfashionable lonely and - worst of all, this - old and uncool person who also smokes in a deeply unsexy way. Actually, if TV used the methods against cigarettes that it uses against Christianity, young people would pretty much stop smoking in a couple of years.

Mr Lewis says : "I’m surprised that you can’t see any parallel between the input from TV into children’s brains and input from religious sources particularly as you go on to say “my objection to the power of TV is that it replaces the imagination and so prevents its development, and allows ideas to enter the mind unmediated”. Excuse me but isn’t that exactly what religion does – replaces imagination and allows (mythical) ideas to enter the mind unmediated? "

Well, I've dealt with the first part of this. And I'm really not sure what he means when he recycles my word 'unmediated' . Did he actually notice the word, or consider its meaning at all, or wonder why I had put it there?  I mean that TV inserts ideas into the human mind when that mind doesn't even realise it is absorbing ideas, and without the normal agencies of human intercourse in which we judge the individual who is providing us with information or instruction, and treat what we are told accordingly. But if certain sentiments are presented as the views of an admired and glamorous TV character, while their audience is relaxing on a soft chair, under the impression she is being entertained, none of these safeguards are present.

He then goes on to say "what could be more preventative to the development of our children’s minds than to say to them “The Lord says this – and it’s not for discussion or debate?"

I don't know what sort of children he knows,  or what sort of religious education he has recently experienced, but we owe to the atheist author Philip Pullman the very true statement that "Once upon a time" is far more effective than "Thou Shalt Not".  Children don't necessarily accept bald statements of fact of this kind, and often either ignore them or reject them. What's more, I'd like to know of any school where Christianity is now taught in the way he describes.

Mr Lewis then seeks to define bigotry as "intolerance to other people's views". He includes this definition, without apparent irony,  in a long posting in which he abuses the religious position as unworthy of respect and deserving of being excluded from schools.

A little news for Mr Lewis. Any parent can remove a child from religious classes, and has been able to for as long as I can recall. Churchgoing is nowhere compulsory. Non-Christian religions have their own schools and my impression is that in most British state schools you could spend 11 years without ever encountering Christianity presented as anything other than  a belief system which some other people more or less inexplicably adopt. There are, it is true, specifically Anglican and Roman Catholic schools. But, a funny thing here, nobody is compelled to attend any of them and they advertise themselves openly as such.  Many of the Anglican ones aren't particularly Anglican - I know of one (in an ordinary English suburb, not a Muslim area) where much of the religious education consisted of classes in how to design a mosque. My own view is that the state schools should abide by the law and provide daily acts of worship and instruction in the faith - provided that those who wish to can opt out. But generally this has been dumped by a largely anti-Christian teaching body, and nobody seriously tries to enforce it any more. So what is Mr Lewis really worried about?

Then we move into the tedious cliche section, atheism for dummies. Can he really do no better than this? Here we go :
"Christian society may tolerate dissent today but isn’t that only because it has to?"

Is it? Or is it because Christians have learned from experience that persecution of others is in fact unChristian. Does Mr Lewis think that if the empty churches of the C of E suddenly filled again, and it became as it once was the dominant religious group in the country that it would start burning and torturing those who disagreed with it? In fact, Anglicanism was always hesitant to do such things. The treatment of John Fisher and Thomas Campion, for example, is a blot on the Church's record, but in those times allegiance to the Roman Catholic church was often a question of national treason just as much as  religious difference. Henry VIII, who murdered Fisher, regarded himself until death as a loyal son of the Holy Catholic Church. It was Fisher's loyalty to him (like that of Thomas More) that was the question. Campion, like most of the others persecuted under Elizabeth ( who did her best to leave ordinary Catholics alone) , actively chose his martyrdom. When the principled Anglican Bishop Thomas Ken made a similar defiance of Royal Authority in the late 17th century, he faced no such violence.

As the descendant of English Nonconformists, I can testify to Anglicanism's high-handed treatment of dissenters, and also to the Puritan Commonwealth's nasty suppression of Anglicanism when Calvinism held the sword of state, but these weren't matters of beheadings or of bonfires at Smithfield.

There's a great tendency, among the cheap-edition atheists, to attribute persecutions and other clashes, which were fundamentally about other things, to religion. This is specially so in references to Northern Ireland, where the conflict was tribal, not doctrinal. The IRA did not blow people up because they refused to believe in the Real Presence, nor did the UVF slit anyone's throat because he rejected justification by faith alone.

I am pleased that Mr Lewis has discovered that the Roman state embraced Christianity, and that Christmas, like many other Christian festivals, is a Christianisation of an old pagan celebration.  But I am not really sure what these facts prove about anything about the validity of Christianity.

As for this passage :"And lastly “ignorance”. With a large chunk of the population of the USA believing that the earth was formed only 4000 years ago, the Roman Catholic Church only admitting in the 1990s that Galileo was right, religions all over the world teaching that centuries old ‘sacred’ scripts are to be accepted without question and with religious people believing in something/someone for which there isn’t a shred of evidence – that sounds a lot like ignorance to me."

There are many strange beliefs abroad. If you wish to argue with those who hold them, please do so.  It can be quite enjoyable and will compel you to re-examine and fortify many of your own assumptions (which we often take on without fully understanding or checking) in a way that can only be good.

Many to this day imagine that there is such an organisation as 'Al Qaeda' because they have read it in the papers,  and I think Mr Lewis's statement about the RC Church and Galileo is actually misleading (has he checked it?), and perhaps meant to be.

But it is false to suggest that all or even most Christians are 'Young-Earth' believers, or that Roman Catholics have only just stopped persecuting Galilean science. In any case, weird misconceptions about science and the cosmos, or indeed anything else,  are not confined to religious believers. Our Godless age has seen a huge growth of 'Age of Aquarius' bunkum and of horoscopes.  From the 9/11 'truth' campaigners and the 'Elvis lives' mob, to the alien abduction lot, there are plenty of people without religious affiliation who believe weird things, not to mention the countless millions who (for instance) think the Beatles and the Rolling Stones are superb musicians. Most of the British intellectual classes believed for decades that Stalin's USSR was  a new civilisation which deserved to be defended. And entire populations, only a few years ago,  were easily fooled by their governments into believing in Iraqi WMD.

As for there being not a shred of evidence for the existence of God, there's quite a lot of circumstantial stuff suggesting somebody or something resembling God may have been busy round these parts. But even if you don't accept that, there is, equally, not a shred of evidence for non-existence of God either.

The idea that science and religion are opposed is and always has been false, as many Christians who are also distinguished scientists have many times attested.  See the recent debate between Richard Dawkins and Professor John Lennox, in which Dr Lennox landed several quite heavy blows on his adversary (Dawkins was made to look a fool about the historical evidence for the existence of Jesus, and seemed interestingly vague about the origins of the Laws of Physics, for instance. One observer claims that Dawkins accepted that the existence of God was a scientifically plausible concept, though I tend to think he only said this for the sake of argument) .Yet atheists continue to act as if it were an axiomatic truth that scientific knowledge expels God from the universe.  Science  ( as David Berlinsky potently points out in "The Devil's Delusion") has precisely nothing to say about the existence of God. Knowledge and understanding of the genuine and indisputable discoveries of the sciences is not in any way incompatible with a Theistic belief. Atheists, often not scientifically educated themselves, often fancy that science forms a complete belief system which explains the nature and origins of the world and all that therein is, and that it has settled many more questions than it has actually settled. Actual scientists know this isn't so.

He goes on "I can’t stop you thinking of my atheistic views as bigoted and full of hatred if you wish".

He doesn't have to stop me. I've expressed no such view.  I suspect he would prefer it if I had, because that would fit his image of the religious person, violently enraged by opposition. Wait for the riposte before anticipating what it will be. I've said many times publicly that I enjoy the company of atheists and am glad they are around because at least they take religion seriously. Most of them, in my view, are people who will eventually accept religion. This is why they feel the need to construct giant verbal barricades against it. If they weren't intellectually perturbed by the claims of religion, why do they need to worry about it so much?

But they are too personally proud to admit their doubt in public.  "What, me? just like all those drab old ladies arranging the flowers in church? How deeply unfashionable and blush-makingly embarrassing. Next I'll be living in a semi-detached house in a suburb, and mowing the lawn. Aaaaargh."

The confident ambitious man, educated out of his background,  wishes above all to declare his independence from the narrow suburban world from which he came. A noisy rejection of the faith of his fathers is a good way of doing this. The trouble is that this often involves the public burning of bridges and boats, and the prospect of the long, cold, swim back - when mature reflection kicks in - is unenticing and rather humiliating.

He then says " but I’m only intolerant to your views when they are forced on a young or innocent mind"

Which is an interesting comment. He attacks intolerance with some vigour, then confesses to being intolerant himself.  But it's all right, you see, because of the condition. Or is it?

He describes religious education as the forcing of views on a young and innocent mind.  Let us pause a moment here. The teaching of any view to the young can be so described. Would Mr Lewis accept that teaching a world view which assumed the non-existence of God would also be the "forcing of views on a young and innocent mind"?  Probably not, but that is because he is given to unconsciously self-serving arguments and wouldn't spot this one, any more than he is aware of the others he uses. But never mind. Whether he accepts it or not, it would be so. This is one of the great questions confronting humanity. It remains a matter of opinion, not being capable of resolution by facts or logic. To be indifferent to it is in fact to take sides. To teach a Godless cosmos is also to take sides.

The decision we really have to take is whether we prefer one or the other. My view is that religious belief enhances our understanding of the universe in which we live, enables us to recognise the promptings of conscience as what they are, and to educate our consciences in the divine law which underpins the universe, so that we become free and knowledgeable actors in that universe, whose actions have the consequences which we and God intend them to have. This is in my view and undoubtedly good thing.

I would urge any parent to ensure his children have a proper religious education, and schools to make it readily available and competently, thoroughly taught. But I would not impose it on anyone against his will. Whereas I strongly suspect Mr Lewis would like to ban religious education altogether, a view that Professor Dawkins and my brother seem to share. Perhaps Mr Lewis might say.  By the way, the idea that by educating children in religious truth you turn them into clones is a bit far-fetched. Does he really think the young are so pliant and subservient?

In my experience, children - who have not had their natural curiosity leeched out of them by the National Curriculum,  workaday concerns and thought-obliterating entertainment - are profoundly and naturally curious about the huge questions which religion answers and atheism bypasses, or imagines not to be important.

What is the origin of authority and law?  How was the world made? Why are we here? Who decides what is good, and what is bad, what actions are right and what is wrong? What happens when we die? Where were we before we were born?  Why do bad people so often prosper, while the good suffer? And so on. A sound religious education provides coherent answers to these and many other questions, as well as connecting the child properly with the great traditions of literature, music, architecture and painting which underlie our far-from-accidental civilisation. It also gives the child the understanding that this is a rational, purposeful universe, capable of being understood -which is the basis of the scientific quest and without which there would be no science.

To deny it to a child is at least as bad as to deny that child exercise, fresh air or natural daylight. What harm has been done by providing it?  On reaching adulthood, he or she is quite free to reject what he has been taught ( many do, myself included) but at least he or she will know what is being rejected, and will have, until the moment of death, the chance of embracing it again. But what of those who have nothing but a blank space, and can look (say) on the Church of the Holy Wisdom in Istanbul,  be vaguely moved and perhaps even troubled by its astonishing aesthetic power, but do not even know what a Cathedral is for? Aren't they deprived of something they ought to have?

Mr Lewis adds "being atheistic doesn’t involve hatred towards people with different views"

Good. He should speak to his co-atheist Professor Dawkins, whose contemptuous remarks about religious believers suggest that he holds a different view.

And then "As to ignorance – I’ve certainly much to learn about many things in the world but at least I’m prepared to alter my view when new facts and evidence surface and I have tried to form my views based on facts and evidence and not from mythology or faith."

Good. But where are these 'facts' on which he bases his apparently prescriptive, doubt-free atheism?   And wouldn't it be better if he accepted it for what it is, a mere matter of subjective opinion, chosen because it suits him just now? I repeat. There is no scientific or other factual evidence for the non-existence of God in which he appears to have such faith (see below).  And what does he have against myth or faith? Myths are not necessarily false, but often stories containing profound truths, and we are better off for them.  Leave aside the religious validity and significance of the Bible, and of how it is to be read or understood, a subject too vast for a web posting.  In these stories we see the human condition examined and explained as nowhere else. Anybody who has no knowledge of the Norse or Greek myths , of the Odyssey and the Iliad, is hugely the poorer for it. Likewise the Bible.

As for faith, we all require it in some things, or we should never get through the day. From breakfast to bedtime, we act of necessity on the basis that we must trust in many things and events which we cannot see or wholly understand and whose outcomes we cannot know. Yet we form intentions and plans on the basis of what is, in effect, faith based on what we have seen or can see . Without that basic faith, we should spend each day cowering under our quilts unable to move.  How then are we expected to get through life in the absence of any faith explaining the astonishing world in which we live, and giving us some reason to remain there doing the tasks which have fallen to us?

15 November 2008 6:36 PM

If Baby P had been middle class, he’d have been taken away

This is Peter Hitchens' Mail on Sunday column

The trouble with modern Britain is that the wrong people are afraid. Inexpressibly cruel killers are afraid of nothing, and rightly view the criminal justice system as a feeble joke. But the police, the courts and the social workers are increasingly fearful of the violent, conscience-free underclass, created by 45 years of well-intentioned but disastrous socialism.

Baby_p This fear helps to explain the pathetic response of authority to the case of ‘Baby P’. Were those who dealt directly with the child’s mother scared either of her or of some unseen figure in the background?

If so, I don’t specially blame them. Such people are very frightening and capable – as they proved in this case – of homicidal violence.

Let us be plain. If one tenth part of the events that took place in Baby P’s mother’s house had happened in a middle-class home, the child would have been snatched away in minutes by haughty social workers.

In fact, if a middle-class Baby P had fallen off a swing and banged his head in a genuine accident, the selectively vigilant social-work squads would have been demanding his removal from the home. They are always prone to imagine abuse among the respectable, even when it’s not taking place.

This is partly because of the prejudice such people usually harbour against the middle class. It is also because they know that the middle class will co-operate with them, will obey the law, turn up at meetings and hearings, take their authority seriously.

But things are different in the earthly hell inhabited by ‘Baby P’ – life financed by £450 a month of other people’s money, filthy rooms and clothes, infestations of lice, the house stinking of human waste and overrun by smelly, aggressive dogs.

The mother, constantly watching TV or staring at rubbish on the internet, was so unmoved by her child’s death (the little martyred corpse was actually blue) that she asked the ambulancemen to hang on while she fetched her cigarettes. And, of course, there’s an ever-shifting queue of serial boyfriends lurking just out of view, hoping for a slice of the benefits.

But we cannot own up to this problem. Officially, we aren’t even allowed to disapprove of this way of life or be ‘judgmental’ about the people who lead such lives.

Why? Mainly because the Left cannot admit that these things are bad. Because to accept that would be to accept that it has made a terrible mistake.

This type of misery stems mainly from decisions taken in the Sixties – especially to begin subsidising women who got pregnant outside wedlock, and to make the marriage bond easily breakable. The predictable result was that we quickly saw many more households where the child has no natural father in the home.

Worse still, we saw a substantial minority where there is a stream of serial boyfriends, likely to view any child as a nuisance or a plaything, or both.

Research done by the Family Education Trust shows that abuse of children – either violent or sexual – is 33 times more likely in such households than in homes where there is a stable marriage. This underlines the dishonesty of a famous NSPCC advertising campaign in which child abuse was portrayed as taking place in clean, tidy, prosperous homes. No doubt it can and does happen there, but much less than it does in the urine-perfumed slums of New Britain.

Britain was certainly not perfect before these changes in the Sixties. That is not the point. Perfection is elusive. The point is that it could be much better now. But it isn’t because in that era we chose the wrong future, for the best of intentions. Now we have got that future, we can see it for what it is.
Can we now admit that we were wrong, and change course? Only the pride of the fashionable Left, and its unwillingness to admit its mistakes, stand in the way. But until they own up to their error, expect such cases to happen again and again.

Stalin was evil: News to no one but the BBC

Stalin_on_tv_2 Amid the necessary rage over the Ross-Brand affair at the BBC, it is often said that the Corporation still produces a lot of high-quality material alongside the Leftist propaganda and the low-brow dross. I’m not so sure of this.

Radio 4 has some good news and current-affairs programmes, but much of its airtime is stuffed with dire alleged comedy, the appalling, shameless and unchecked Leftist propaganda of ‘The News Quiz’ and an unchanging array of chat shows presented by ancient liberals.

As for the TV stations, I now rarely bother switching them on. The prospect of trimming my toenails or flossing my teeth, or reading the labels of empty beer bottles, just seems more alluring.

But the other day I was persuaded to sample a supposedly illuminating BBC2 documentary called World War Two – Behind Closed Doors. This, I was assured, would be full of exciting new facts, grippingly presented.

What did I get? A portentous commentary, an actor pretending to be Joe Stalin and various other silly reconstructions (one very lengthy one involved a woman roaming irrelevantly round a house in Lvov, in her underwear).

Mixed in with this was the BBC’s shocked discovery that Stalin and Hitler signed a pact of alliance in 1939 and – amazing! – jointly invaded Poland before co-operating against Britain. Well spotted, BBC. Some of us have known this for decades. Presumably the Corporation was so stuffed with communist fellow-travellers that it couldn’t be mentioned till now. Behind closed doors indeed.

I was so dispirited by this low-grade tripe that I switched over to BBC1 to catch up with the once-excellent thriller series Spooks. But this has become a wooden parody of itself. What’s more, it has succumbed to the BBC’s love affair with the Tories.
As London (yet again) faced a terrorist threat, MI5 agents were ordered to check the whereabouts not only of the Cabinet but also of the Shadow Cabinet. They’d never have done that before David Cameron took over.

St Barack’s expensive schools and sneaky cigarettes

Still the Obama-worship continues. Scores of Americans denounced me for suggesting last week that Mr Obama was not divine. How do these people cope with the fact that the President-elect, following a fine old Left-wing tradition on both sides of the Atlantic, is seeking to send his daughters to terrifyingly expensive private schools in Washington DC?

Surely, in between curing cancer and mending the hole in the ozone layer, Mr Obama can fix the US capital’s atrocious state schools?

And have any of you ever seen a picture of Mr Obama, a heavy smoker, with a cigarette in his mouth? No, nor have I. Why is that?

* By the way, what has become of the Metropolitan Police celebrity squad? It is a criminal offence to make obscene telephone calls, and two major stars have been caught doing just that. Yet not a word from the Yard.

12 November 2008 4:05 PM

Obamaniacs

It is always fascinating to see how seldom my critics respond to what I actually say. What seems to get them going is the fact that I exist at all.

I wrote an article which attacked the cult of Obama, both in the USA and abroad.  It did not even say that the American people were wrong to elect Mr Obama, not least because - since the French Army and Navy so generously won the battle of Yorktown for George Washington (Merci, Messieurs Rochambeau, Lafayette and De Grasse, and so much for all those American jibes about cheese-eating surrender monkeys and non-existent French military victories)  - English people haven't really had much business in deciding who is the Head of the American State or Government. 

I wrote an article which contained not one word of endorsement for John McCain or Sarah Palin, nor one word of defence of George W.Bush. A tiny bit of research would reveal that I have long been a strong critic of Mr Bush and his actions, that I have  shown no enthusiasm for Mr McCain and I delighted in Mrs Palin only to the extent that she annoys ultra-feminists.

Two weeks ago, I would have said that - in the unlikely event that I swore allegiance to a  foreign power and became a US citizen - that I probably wouldn't have voted at all in the Presidential election. I believe many have fought and died for the immensely precious right not to vote.  I think people should exercise that right a good deal more when presented with an insulting or excessively narrow choice by the political party machines.

But after spending some time in the US during the closing days of the campaign, I came round to the view that, granted a vote, I would have cast it for Mr McCain if only to annoy the Obama cultists, and emphasise the fact that a sizeable minority aren't wholly fooled by hype, humbug and brain-bypassing advertising techniques.

Even so, I still think both abstaining and voting for McCain were reasonable options, even if you disagree with them.  I also have no personal criticisms against those who voted rationally for Mr Obama on the basis that they knew exactly what he was and what they would get.  I disagree with them, but at least their action was rational and informed. You could even - as some I know have done - vote for Obama because you desired a Democratic White House , even if you didn't think much of the man.

What I don't think any wise or educated person should do would be to vote for Barack Obama on the basis of the weird utopian cult which seemed to have come into being around him. People shouldn't swoon at political rallies. They shouldn't ( as 17,000 Obama fans did once in Dallas) applaud when Obama stops a speech to announce that he needs to blow his nose.  They should listen carefully to what is being said, and you can't do that while in a swoon. It is well known that politicians campaign in poetry and govern in prose (the politest way I know of expressing this problem) . But the contrast between the supposed promise of Obama and the likely reality is so great that it is likely to discredit the office and the constitution.

How many of my critics have actually read David Freddoso's measured, forensic 'The Case Against Barack Obama'? Or, come to that, how many of them have opened David Mendell's earlier but still telling critical study 'Obama - from Promise to Power'? Or how many have read the Chicago Tribune's interesting and revealing pursuit of the vague and partial stories in Mr Obama's own interesting and engaging but not wholly candid memoir,  'Dreams from my Father'?  Anyone can do this. I do, admittedly,   have the slight advantage of having spent some fascinating days in Chicago and elsewhere in Illinois, speaking to individuals  (some of whom wished to remain anonymous) who had encountered Mr Obama early in his political career. But I didn't keep it to myself. The results of this were published in the Mail on Sunday in February and can still be found on the web.

So, for instance, my views have nothing to do with Sarah Palin, and her (deserved) evisceration by Katie Couric. It's good to see that an inadequate and ill-prepared candidate can still get herself disembowelled by the US media, but shouldn't people ask themselves if they've ever seen Mr Obama subjected to this sort of treatment? Most Americans don't even known that Barack Obama smokes cigarettes, so how can they be expected to know what his grasp of foreign policy is like?   How would he cope with foreign potentates in the hurly burly of real life?  See Freddoso again,  for some hints.

The haunting expression "last, best hope" is Abraham Lincoln's. It was first used  (so far as I know) in his December 1862 message to Congress. Like so many things that he said, it is almost Biblical in its force, and implies the idea of the United States as a special homeland of liberty. This is an idea which became a much more widespread view in the 20th century. It is why many of us who are not Americans value the USA and are distressed when  it stumbles, whether that be under Mr Clinton, Mr Bush and Mr Cheney, or anyone else unfit to rule it. So it's not a question who, but of what.

Alison in California wouldn't have me anywhere near her home because I'm right wing.  Well, I'm nowhere near your home, Alison, nor likely to be. And if I ever find myself that way, I'll take good care to keep my distance ( though I think I can be fairly sure you're not armed).  But how enjoyably left-wing of you to consider that those who disagree with you do so because they have a character fault. And can we please all stop using that dead cliche 'sea-change'? It's either a change or it's not. And, for certain in this case, the sea has nothing to do with it. By the way, I don't doubt that Mr Obama's election means America has changed and will change, but only in the directions it's already taking - multiculturalism, bilingualism, moral chaos and educational nullity.

I'm chided for my harsh review of Mr Obama's speech. I watched it with a rather various group of American citizens, and I was by no means the only one who didn't think much of it. I have also read it, carefully, in text form, and it reads even worse than it sounded. Nobody maintains that it was one of his better speeches or better performances ( he has never really bettered his 2004 oration at the Democratic convention, in my view) . I regret having missed the MLK reference. I stand by my view that the USA is still segregated, but my unspoken mutual agreement rather than by force of law. Those who challenge this view are invited to give examples of fully integrated high schools, neighbourhoods etc where black and white Americans of all classes meet and mix on equal terms without any kind of special measures. I accept that the US Armed forces have made a major effort to integrate, that some university districts have achieved a measure of middle-class integration( Obama's own Hyde Park neighbourhood is an example of this). But these are not typical of big city or small town America, in my view. I also accept that integration also operates in many workplaces (especially publicly-financed ones). But as soon as the power of the state is withdrawn and people are left to choose, back we go. It is not Alabama 1964.  But neither is it a colour-blind paradise.

Why does Chris G say my remarks are 'premature', and then  go on to complain that I've supposedly dredged up trouble from "decades ago". Isn't this having it both ways?  Since we cannot see the future, aren't we entitled to examine the past? Are the difficulties in Obama's record as tenuous as 'Chris G' defensively insists?  How can we know? Who has investigated them in depth with the resources devoted (say) to Sarah Palin's background?  Obama himself has described his dealings with Tony Rezko as 'boneheaded'.

Were they trivial, or long ago? Again, read Freddoso. Obama's association with Tony Rezko was sustained over several years, culminating in the strange land deal involving Obama's Hyde Park House and Mrs Rezko. Was this some time before Noah's flood? Nope. It was in June 2005, and came to light in September 2006, quite a while after dinosaurs ceased to walk the earth. Some people would even call it recent. The same goes for Obama's foreign policy flip-flops( see Freddoso).

As for his astonishing attitude towards unborn children , the details of his behaviour over an Illinois Bill protecting babies which had survived abortions (again, see Freddoso) are fascinating, and give a clue to his considerable radicalism on this defining issue of modern American politics. Again, if you wanted to support this attitude, then he would be your preferred candidate.  He will, after all, probably appoint three Supreme Court justices in the next few years, and they are the people who decide America's abortion laws. But did all his supporters know where he stood? I doubt it.

Someone calling himself 'Anthony' resorts to a baseless smear as follows:  "Your rant betrays your simplistic mind where only the whites are fit to rule the world." Can this person produce a word I have ever said or written which justifies this claim? It is precisely because I am willing to judge people, especially politicians, by the content of their characters rather than the colour of their skins that I feel free to criticise Mr Obama for his beliefs and actions. Is it not a form of racial bigotry to vote for someone because of his skin colour, especially if in doing so you ignore other important facts about him?

Brian Butler asks "Newspaper nit pickers make me sick, if they are so smart and clever why aren't up their leading a country themselves?" It's an important question.  The answer is that the gate to politics is a very narrow one. Politicians go on about how their critics have never won elections. But nor would they, if they hadn't been picked as candidates by official parties and supported and groomed by official machines. Quite a lot of politically interesting (and potentially competent and beneficial) people never get selected by those closed and secret machines. By the time we get to vote for someone, he's already been through this  elite selection process over which we have no control. It's amazing how so few voters grasp this simple, yet blindingly obvious,  fact.

John Gibson objects that previous presidents have been as liberal or left-wing as Obama. No doubt, and some of them have posed as conservatives, as my article said. But that's not my thrust. My thrust is against the Obama cult and its irrationality, a different question. Also, US presidents of the past simply haven't been confronted with the mass immigration question on this scale or in this form.  These migrants are not assimilating or adapting to the old American culture. they are changing American culture to suit themselves, and are thus different from every previous wave of migrants to the US. The transformation of the US into a bilingual country, the supersession of the black-white divide with an English-Speaking/Spanish Speaking one , and the rise of political correctness have all created conditions which Franklin Roosevelt (for example) could never have conceived of. The election of Obama seems to me to confirm and make irreversible a trend already well under way, at least since the Reagan years and probably since Jimmy Carter's Immigration Act.

John Tosh predicts that Obama will begin to pull troops out of the Iraq and Afghan wars. I shall believe this when I see it, though the forces in Iraq are already drawing down through force of circumstance, and the intention always seems to have been to withdraw to fortified bases once a compliant government had been established in Baghdad (the British experience after 1920 suggests this will not work, by the way, and then what?) .  Mr Obama has been more militant on Afghanistan ( especially on sending forces into Pakistan) than Mr McCain, and is so inexperienced in foreign affairs that I suspect he will quickly become the prisoner of his advisers. Those who voted for Obama as a 'peace' candidate, or a civil liberties candidate, may find themselves severely disappointed.

Lotte objects to my suggestion that Britain (like the USA ) is on its way to Third World status. I didn't actually say either country was there yet, though I agree with Lotte that some parts of the District of Columbia are quite a way in that direction. I would not, however, blame this on 'poverty'. The USA, contrary to a general European view, has a considerable welfare state - though it is much more means-tested than ours. Also, if Black America were a country in its own right it would be one of the richest and most advanced in the world. I would blame the problems of the bad parts of DC on social collapse, the absence of settled families and of working husbands and fathers, and the evils which follow these things. Lotte should be aware that I do quite frequently visit Third World countries ( and was most recently in the "Democratic Republic of the Congo" which I think would qualify, and Lubumbashi makes North-East DC look like Paris). But the general direction of the advanced democracies is downhill, and especially towards the squeezing out of the independent professional middle class, who are essential for the maintenance of a law-governed free constitution.

"Tommy Atkins" may say what he likes, but I simply am not a neo-con, and if "Tommy Atkins" thinks I am, he hasn't been paying attention. Did he in fact read this article?

I am grateful for the many contributors who saw my point. This is, in sum,  that political cults are bad in themselves because they are hostile to reason and give their beneficiaries more power than anyone ought to have, and because we demean ourselves by worshipping mere mortals.

Ah well, back to my "rank, muck-filled cave".

I may turn to one or two other subjects later in the week, or early next,  especially the question of Christian education.

12 November 2008 3:46 PM

Legal Eagles vs Hitchens - the final ruling?

For those uninterested in legal matters, or the rules of debate, I must apologise for what follows.  For those who are interested, here is a response made necessary by the contributions of two people who aggressively and repeatedly asserted, implying superior and special knowledge of the law, that a proposal of mine - that drunk drivers who kill could in future be executed for premeditated murder -  was impossible under English law. They did this on several threads.

They were quite uncompromising in their stance.

One said my proposal was legally impossible ( "legally, it is impossible to even consider Hitchens' proposal in the first instance").
Note: he didn't say it was difficult, or contentious. he said it was 'impossible'.

The other proclaimed "It cannot succeed under Common Law".

Note: he didn't say it 'might not', or would be problematic. He said "It cannot succeed".

As for the aggressive and rather bumptious nature of the attack, Mr "Demetriou" said on 25th October at 2.38 pm :"Either a) Mr Hitchens doesn't understand basic legal concepts, or, b) his love for the Magna Carta and Habeus Corpus is based on a complete bluff, and it's all a load of rubbish.

"I am honestly agog that he refuses to see the point that Michael and I are trying to make. He surely has to admit he was wrong on this, or at least try and provide some form of supporting evidence to back up his assertion.

Are there any lawyers who post here who could step in and try and make him listen?"

The two made their case in company, one (Mr Williamson ) repeatedly associating himself with, and endorsing the arguments of the other , the pseudonymous Mr "Demetriou".

I make no claims to legal expertise, but I wasn't convinced of theirs, and am even less convinced now. Yet they both acted throughout as if they had some sort of special understanding which I (and those who supported me) lacked. I have gone to these lengths because I asked them again and again to set out their actual arguments instead of asserting their superiority, but on each occasion they said once more, in effect, that they were right and I was wrong.  I hope that their experience over this ( since they turn out to be wrong in their contention that the idea is impossible) will encourage both of them ( and others)  to argue in future as I asked them to, showing their logic and producing their facts.

I asked them repeatedly to explain in plain English in what way the law made my proposal impossible. I also asked them to give us some idea of what their own legal qualifications were, since Mr "Demetriou" repeatedly claimed (implying that he had some way of knowing this) that no lawyer would support my proposal.  Well, that's his opinion. Not being able to contact every criminal lawyer in the country, I'm unable to confirm his claim or to refute it. I was suspicious of the qualifications in this matter of Mr "Demetriou", who can't spell 'Habeas Corpus' and of Mr Williamson, who ( and I know it really annoys him every time I point this out, but it is relevant, so I will do so again) unwisely confused a plaintiff with a defendant (and my implication civil and criminal law) in a contribution in which he asserted legal knowledge.

They ignored these requests. Eventually, I  did some basic research on 'Mens Rea' and the Common Law, and found that their arguments were not as firmly based as they claimed. I provided these factual points in an entry on "A few replies to comments on older threads" , made on 3rd November at 2.35 am ( I was in the USA at the time, hence the apparently small-hours timing, not usually a time of the morning when I debate the law or anything else).

Briefly, I referred to the Wikipedia entry on 'Mens Rea',  inviting any expert to dispute its summary of the matter, but pointing out that this entry (if correct)  allowed 'Mens Rea' to exist where there was an oblique intention (the result was a certain consequence of the defendant's actions and he  knew it) and, even more relevantly  where there was recklessness  (the actor foresees that particular consequences may occur and proceeds with the given conduct, not caring whether those consequences actually occur or not); Further there is criminal negligence (the actor did not actually foresee that the particular consequences would flow from his actions, but a reasonable person, in the same circumstances, would have foreseen those consequences).

Neither Mr Williamson nor Mr "Demetriou" have so far disputed the Wikipedia summary of the legal position.

These provisions seem to me to be arguably applicable in the case I originally wrote about, of a man, knowingly and obviously drunk to such an extent that his friends pleaded with him not to drive, taking his car out on the road and subsequently killing two children in circumstances in which a reasonable person could have foreseen this consequence.

Note that I am not saying that this definitively settles the argument.  I know enough about the law to lack my opponents' confidence in legal certainty. The law, as I do know,  is seldom that clear, which is why we have Appeal Courts whose learned judges frequently disagree among themselves and overturn each other's considered rulings. And the facts need to be carefully examined in each case, which is why we have juries. However, it certainly makes my suggestion arguable, and opens the possibility of an English court, following the principles of Common Law and of 'Mens Rea' deciding to convict on this basis.

Here are some samples of the tone and nature of the postings by these two allies:

On the thread "Why driving drunk is equivalent to premeditated murder", which I posted on 15th October  at 12.01 pm,
Mr "Demetriou" and Mr Williamson posted (among others, the following comments:

"John Demetriou"said on 15th October, at 4.56 pm:

"It's not pre-meditated murder, unless by some amazing act of genius on the part of a prosecution team, it could be shown that the driver was deliberately gunning for the person who got knocked down.

"Correct - driving at ridiculous speeds when drunk, when roads are seldom empty, is likely to cause a serious accident and probably death. But it is almost impossible to show premeditation, because the law would need to be satisfied that the driver deliberately killed the specific individual in question.

"Given the random nature of deaths in these cases, the criminal liability test as prescribed by ancient common law, would virtually never be met were a re-classification to take place.

"I would have thought that someone so proud and defensive of Habeus Corpus and the Magna Carta would have understood the principles of mens rea quite well."

Mr "Demetriou" added on 16th October 7.37 pm:

"It is pointless to go on about this argument, when legally, it is impossible to even consider Hitchens' proposal in the first instance."

And then on 17th October, 3.29 pm, he declared:"The thing is, Mr Williamson, Hitchens can't answer my legal point and he is completely trumped and scuppered on this one. But he is too proud to face this harsh fact.

"I have come up with a point of law that entirely destroys his position, and he remains silent.

I ask you all to draw your own conclusions to that."

Michael Williamson added to this on 15th October 8.45 pm:"But as there was no intent to murder he cannot be charged with this crime."

He then noted on 16th October at 10.33 pm, in an approving comment on Mr "Demetriou" and his earlier posting: ""John Demetriou 15 October 2008 at 04:56 PM. Very eloquently put; I see we both said something similar in the previous thread. I doubt we'll get a response though."

Mr Williamson had earlier said in  a comment on Mr "Demetriou" (who raised the 'mens rea' question on the original (11th October) thread discussing this subject (14th October 12.52 am, 'Nice Scoop Mr Peston' ) "I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with John Demetriou - twice!

"Firstly I think Mr Hitchens must be coming down with something, he cannot seriously suggest that the death penalty can be used for drunken drivers, that is unprecedented in modern English law."

Then  there was this posting by "Anon" on 24th October (This was on the later thread :"A few replies to comments on older threads") at 4.17 am, saying:

" As John Demetriou and myself have been struggling to point out a charge of premeditation fails under English common law as it always has. All the spurious arguments about the rights and wrongs of the death penalty and whether it is Christian or not are irrelevant. It cannot succeed under common law.That is the point that Mr Hitchens has singularly failed to answer because it can't be answered. Unless he proposes a change in common law or to make death by drunken driving a capital offence with no defense permitted then it's a non-starter."

Who was "Anon"? Why, it was Mr Williamson, who posted on 25th October (Again on "A few replies to comments on earlier threads")at 3.25 am. We know this because he told us so:
"Mr Hitchens I think you are well aware that Anon was me, I am currently working on various borrowed PCs and I sometimes forget that my details have not been saved.I think you are well aware that mens rea requires premeditation and, in the case of a drunken driver, there is no premeditation. For a capital offence intent has to be proved and there was none in this case."

So what was the response when I provided solid reasons to at least doubt the certainties asserted by these two?

Mr Williamson, though he rejects the suggestion that he is an 'ally' of Mr Demetriou (and who can blame him?) did ultimately concede that "maybe" the proposal was workable under the law. That's fine by me. That's all I ever asked, the acceptance that the absolute prescriptive statement that my suggestion was impossible under English law ("Demetriou") and could not succeed (Williamson) was not in fact correct.  It was implied by both these participants, though especially by Mr "Demetriou" that I was being obdurate and invincibly ignorant ( and supposedly defying all known lawyers as well)  in refusing to concede this supposedly established fact. As far as Mr Williamson is concerned, this has now dwindled to a "maybe", which is not just a change of tone, but a considerable climbdown.  If Mr Williamson wants to pursue it further on that basis, I suppose we could do so, but it's all so distant that it seems a little theoretical (though so much for those who say I never come up with any actual proposals, eh?).

Mr "Demetriou" on 8th November at 2.09 pm, remained by contrast wholly unrepentant ( No surprise there. He is capable of repentance, but it is pretty rare for him to show it), and responded by simply repeating what he had said before, and suggesting a knowledge of the minds of lawyers which he cannot actually demonstrate that he possesses: "I still think you are wrong on the matter, as you seem to think American differences can be applied to the UK. A change in the law would be impossible. Ask any senior member of the judiciary for an objective viewpoint."

Well, I don't have that sort of access to senior judges, but I would say that the USA has a common law system with a common ancestry to our own, and if it took this view,that would be evidence that common law could accommodate the change I suggest. I am also not sure that the examples Wikipedia provides do come from the USA. Is he?

09 November 2008 1:32 AM

The night we waved goodbye to America... our last best hope on Earth

This is Peter Hitchens' Mail on Sunday column

Anyone would think we had just elected a hip, skinny and youthful replacement for God, with a plan to modernise Heaven and Hell – or that at the very least John Lennon had come back from the dead.

The swooning frenzy over the choice of Barack Obama as President of the United States must be one of the most absurd waves of self-deception and swirling fantasy ever to sweep through an advanced civilisation. At least Mandela-worship – its nearest equivalent – is focused on a man who actually did something.

I really don’t see how the Obama devotees can ever in future mock the Moonies, the Scientologists or people who claim to have been abducted in flying saucers. This is a cult like the one which grew up around Princess Diana, bereft of reason and hostile to facts.

ObamaIt already has all the signs of such a thing. The newspapers which recorded Obama’s victory have become valuable relics. You may buy Obama picture books and Obama calendars and if there isn’t yet a children’s picture version of his story, there soon will be.

Proper books, recording his sordid associates, his cowardly voting record, his astonishingly militant commitment to unrestricted abortion and his blundering trip to Africa, are little-read and hard to find.

If you can believe that this undistinguished and conventionally Left-wing machine politician is a sort of secular saviour, then you can believe anything. He plainly doesn’t believe it himself. His cliche-stuffed, PC clunker of an acceptance speech suffered badly from nerves.  It was what you would expect from someone who knew he’d promised too much and that from now on the easy bit was over.

He needn’t worry too much. From now on, the rough boys and girls of America’s Democratic Party apparatus, many recycled from Bill Clinton’s stained and crumpled entourage, will crowd round him, to collect the rich spoils of his victory and also tell him what to do, which is what he is used to.

Just look at his sermon by the shores of Lake Michigan. He really did talk about a ‘new dawn’, and a ‘timeless creed’ (which was ‘yes, we can’). He proclaimed that ‘change has come’. He revealed that, despite having edited the Harvard Law Review, he doesn’t know what ‘enormity’ means. He reached depths of oratorical drivel never even plumbed by our own Mr Blair, burbling about putting our hands on the arc of history (or was it the ark of history?) and bending it once more toward the hope of a better day (Don’t try this at home).

I am not making this up. No wonder that awful old hack Jesse Jackson sobbed as he watched. How he must wish he, too, could get away with this sort of stuff.

And it was interesting how the President-elect failed to lift his admiring audience by repeated – but rather hesitant – invocations of the brainless slogan he was forced by his minders to adopt against his will – ‘Yes, we can’. They were supposed to thunder ‘Yes, we can!’ back at him, but they just wouldn’t join in.  No wonder. Yes we can what exactly? Go home and keep a close eye on the tax rate, is my advice. He’d have been better off bursting into ‘I’d like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony’ which contains roughly the same message and might have attracted some valuable commercial sponsorship.

Perhaps, being a Chicago crowd, they knew some of the things that 52.5 per cent of America prefers not to know. They know Obama is the obedient servant of one of the most squalid and unshakeable political machines in America. They know that one of his alarmingly close associates, a state-subsidised slum landlord called Tony Rezko, has been convicted on fraud and corruption charges.

They also know the US is just as segregated as it was before Martin Luther King – in schools, streets, neighbourhoods, holidays, even in its TV-watching habits and its choice of fast-food joint. The difference is that it is now done by unspoken agreement rather than by law.

If Mr Obama’s election had threatened any of that, his feel-good white supporters would have scuttled off and voted for John McCain, or practically anyone. But it doesn’t. Mr Obama, thanks mainly to the now-departed grandmother he alternately praised as a saint and denounced as a racial bigot, has the huge advantages of an expensive private education. He did not have to grow up in the badlands of useless schools, shattered families and gangs which are the lot of so many young black men of his generation.

If the nonsensical claims made for this election were true, then every positive discrimination programme aimed at helping black people into jobs they otherwise wouldn’t get should be abandoned forthwith. Nothing of the kind will happen. On the contrary, there will probably be more of them.

And if those who voted for Obama were all proving their anti-racist nobility, that presumably means that those many millions who didn’t vote for him were proving themselves to be hopeless bigots. This is obviously untrue.

I was in Washington DC the night of the election. America’s beautiful capital has a sad secret. It is perhaps the most racially divided city in the world, with 15th Street – which runs due north from the White House – the unofficial frontier between black and white. But, like so much of America, it also now has a new division, and one which is in many ways much more important. I had attended an election-night party in a smart and liberal white area, but was staying the night less than a mile away on the edge of a suburb where Spanish is spoken as much as English, plus a smattering of tongues from such places as Ethiopia, Somalia and Afghanistan.

As I walked, I crossed another of Washington’s secret frontiers. There had been a few white people blowing car horns and shouting, as the result became clear. But among the Mexicans, Salvadorans and the other Third World nationalities, there was something like ecstasy.

They grasped the real significance of this moment. They knew it meant that America had finally switched sides in a global cultural war. Forget the Cold War, or even the Iraq War. The United States, having for the most part a deeply conservative people, had until now just about stood out against many of the mistakes which have ruined so much of the rest of the world.

Suspicious of welfare addiction, feeble justice and high taxes, totally committed to preserving its own national sovereignty, unabashedly Christian in a world part secular and part Muslim, suspicious of the Great Global Warming panic, it was unique.

These strengths had been fading for some time, mainly due to poorly controlled mass immigration and to the march of political correctness. They had also been weakened by the failure of America’s conservative party – the Republicans – to fight on the cultural and moral fronts.

They preferred to posture on the world stage. Scared of confronting Left-wing teachers and sexual revolutionaries at home, they could order soldiers to be brave on their behalf in far-off deserts. And now the US, like Britain before it, has begun the long slow descent into the Third World. How sad. Where now is our last best hope on Earth?