The other Zidane
at 08:27
Naim Zidane, reported the Telegraph last week, is a 70 year old Palestinian who all his life has worked in a vineyard owned by the Italian priests at the West Bank Salesian monastery of Cremisan, near Beit Jala, not far from Bethlehem. They've been working together as a community for 120 years. But soon, it appears, the Israeli security barrier will drag this last West Bank vineyard into the Israeli side of the wall, just as they have ripped away the livelihoods of thousands of other West Bank Palestinians with the closing off of many olive groves over the past few years.
Meanwhile, last night, they once again attacked civilian infrastructure in another sovereign state, Lebanon, closing Beirut airport with rocket attacks, in reprisals against a geurilla organization, Hezbollah, sponsored and many say, I gather, controlled by a third, Syria, for kidnapping two Israeli military personnel. And in the past few days seventy Palestinians and one Israeli, including, as always, mostly civilians, and with them lots of children, have been killed in Israeli incursions into the largest concentration camp on the planet, the Gaza strip, also, it seems, because some of their fellow "countrymen" if Palestine can be called, yet, a country, kidnapped an Israeli soldier who was, presumably, on his way to maim and kill more Palestinians.
I really hesitate to post about Israel. If I am lucky my visitor numbers will rise. But probably at the expense of abuse that seems to be meted out against anyone who says anything negative about Israel. I'm a pacifist. And I understand that things have been difficult, shall we say, in that part of the world for several decades. I believe, I think, in a two state solution, not because I support Israel - if Israel hadn't carved itself out of the desert in the first half of the twentieth century I certainly wouldn't be creating it now. But it exists, and as a pragmatist, I believe there are a whole load of peace-loving Israelis, who arrived there and brought their families up there, hoping for some kind of peaceful co-existence with those who also viewed that land as part of their history and we should work for that peaceful co-existence.
But can you imagine the uproar there would have been if, say, the US military had gone about searching for those two of their soldiers, Kristian Menchaca and Thomas Tucker, who were kidnapped by allegedly al-Qaeda linked insurgents in Iraq, by killing civilians and bombing civilian infrastructure there? Like the battle of Falluja? Despite all my misgivings about the US government's lack of respect for the rule of law, I cannot for the life of me see why Israel gets away with these things, almost unremarked upon.
Our seeming collective myopia disgusts me - note to any hardcore Zionists about to yell at me - not Israel per se, but us, who seem to let this violence trickle through in the inside pages of newspapers and down in the bottom half of the news hour, with hardly a mention, either to condemn, or to discuss solutions. Maybe this latest attack on the civilian infrastructure of a country that in recent years, despite the upheavals caused by the death of President Rafik Hariri a while back, has been getting itself back on its feet, will refocus attention on what's going on in the area.
Punishment attacks are the weapons of a desperate regime. They are disgusting. Against the rule of law. People who support, as I do, a two state solution (though I have to say with deep, deep misgivings about the carving out of settlements whenever it suits them leaving the West Bank looking like a land strafed with bomb craters like the Somme battlefield) will eventually lose sympathy and wonder what it is we actually support - which ones are the murdering terrorists. Because terrorism is exactly what's been going on in Gaza; state sponsored terrorism, and state sponsored theft as in the case of Naim Zidane's employers' vineyard.
And I for one am losing patience with it. Whatever the hurdles, whatever the attitudes of those they feel are ranged against them, Israel can be the "better man" in its response, respecting the rule of law. When I was young, I just about remember Entebbe - we were I think in Kenya at the time. We thought the surgical precision of Israeli special forces when they wanted to be was second to none in the world. Maybe that was naive (I was only seven I think and soldierly antics were exciting, not threatening), but it seems to me they have become little more than the terrorists they condemn. And if we lose patience with the situation, if we give up hoping for a peaceful, adult, settlement, then I would imagine that Israel's death throes could be as bloody as its birth-pangs. And we will not care, because we'll have grown used to the bloodshed, and really have stopped trying to work out who are the good guys or not.
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But can you imagine the uproar there would have been if, say, the US military had gone about searching for those two of their soldiers, Kristian Menchaca and Thomas Tucker, who were kidnapped by allegedly al-Qaeda linked insurgents in Iraq, by killing civilians and bombing civilian infrastructure there?
Aren't you forgetting US bombing of Lybia and invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Cuba, etc? These may not have been in response to just kidnapping but they were still gross over reations with little international legitimacy. There is a lot more going on in Israel and Palestine than kidnapping. There has been a significant increase in rockets being fired from both Lebanon and Gaza against Israeli civilian targets.
Calling Gaza a concentration camp is a little extreme and does not help to create a mood of understanding that is needed in the area. I won't bore you with the facts of the differences but urge you, as a Liberal Democrat, to consider you use of language when you enter the debate.
... fellow countrymen" kidnapped an Israeli soldier who was, presumably, on his way to maim and kill more Palestinians.
Or to put it another way, to act against terrorists firing rockets into Israel, months after Israel withdrew their forces from Gaza. Your presumption is not fair on the soldier, who is also a human being.
I am not going to be an apologist for Israeli actions, some of which are clearly take little account of Palestinian human rights. But it is too easy for you to simply condemn all Israeli actions, the reality of the situation is so much more messy."
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Invasion of Cuba, I was thinking of the Bay of Pigs invasion and the fact that the US still occupy part of the island as military prison (not POW camp).
After 9/11 the US and UK blamed terrorists based in Afghanistan and did launch a full scale invasion and killed many more civilians that have been killed in Palestine over many years of conflict. This does not excuse the Israeli governments actions but it is hard for them to play the moral upper hand when nobody else does!
Gaza was setup as a refugee camp by Egypt after their invasion of Israel and annexation of Palestinian territory by Egypt. A POW camp would be an even worse description of Gaza since it would assume all Palestinians are enemy fighters - let's not make the mistake of thinking that!
Israel has been trying to give Gaza some independence by withdrawing earlier in the year and allowing free elections. they have been rewarded by regular rocket attacks and now hostage taking by the 'political party' that now runs the government. And I don't think crying to the UN will do any good.
I like your final comment about a public enquiry about the killing of civilians when hunting terrorists, you will note that we have not had a public inquiry following the death of a civilian in Stockwell tube at the hands of the police. You are right that the Israeli government and courts should not allow themselves to think of Palestinian civilians as acceptable casualties, but their actions do suggest that they are trying to minimise these deaths. Not good enough maybe, but if they really did not care about civialian deaths I would hate to think what we might see, something more like Chechnya. But we do not boycott Russian academics, why then is Israel the only country that deserves an academic boycott? (There are double-standards)
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Aren't you forgetting US bombing of Lybia and invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Cuba, etc?
I certainly am forgetting the US bombing of Cuba - when did that happen then? But as to the others, I do recall a great deal of outrage. In the case of Iraq and Afghanistan hundreds of thousands of people on the streets of many cities worldwide.
But we're not talking about things on that sort of scale here, unless Israel follows up its punishment bombing of Beirut airport with a fullscale land invasion.
International law would say that, at least in the case of things happening from within the Lebanon, you take your grievance, if you believe it to have come from the government of that country, to the UN. If you don't believe it to have come from the government of that country you should use the usual channels" to ask that government what they are doing about it.
Gaza is a concentration camp, of that I have no doubt. It exists solely at the whim of the Israeli government so far as I can see. But I'll settle for a POW camp, and in a POW camp one would expect people to try to escape or attack their captors - we celebrated that in times one by.
Yet I am not saying that everything is Israel's fault at all. I am saying that as a supposedly responsible sovereign state, they should have better options than to bomb or bulldoze at will. To build their wall is one thing, but in doing so they are effectively creating a new border and who is monitoring that and working out the route? They clearly do not recognise that Palestinians have any rights, or they would be seeking formal discussions about the route of that wall.
To "act against terrorists" did not mean bombing the suburbs of Leeds or Luton did it? Why should involve all the collateral damage (an evil phrase if ever I heard one) that every strike against Palestinian criminals seems to involve. If you try to take out an individual in one of the most densely populated places on the planet your actions will have forseeably immoral consequences.
Israel has to play with the moral upper hand in this. They may be facing terrorists, but we condemn Putin for the way he handles the Chechnya terrorists in a cavalier fashion that seems to take little account of collateral deamage caused.
They are a sophisticated nation. They should be holding public enquiries into why their head of police manages to kill so many others when they're really after just the terrorists. Or are they?"